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crank sensor / 2000 Ram Cummins

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for the crank sensor on a 2000 Cummins, need to know what wire does what & what wire goes where,
Also is there anyway to test this sensor, I have 2 in front of me & they both have different readings from probe to probe,
Thank you all !!
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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I have a wiring diagram for a 2001, but don't see the crankshaft position sensor on it. I know there is one because I've had them out, but I'm not quite sure if maybe it's not used on some models. These crankshaft position sensors are located where it is pretty much out of sight, out of mind, and I have seen very little problems with them.

Is it actually the crankshaft position sensor you're looking at? If your truck has one, it is located on the lower LH side of the block behind the starter (the starter must be removed for access to it). There is a camshaft postion sensor that is located in the backside of the timing cover, directly below the injection pump (not easy to access as well). This is really only used by the ECM for diagnostic purposes. The signal the ECM relies on mainly is a cam position signal that is provided by the injection pump. With this signal, the ECM knows engine RPM and when #1 cylinder is at top dead center. From there, by foloowing the firing order, the ECM knows when each other cylinder is ready to fire. If this signal fails, the ECM will use the camshaft postion sensor as a backup. A problem with the crankshaft position sensor will set a code, but the engine should still run because the ECM is relying on the signal from the injection pump.

Back to the wiring, both the cam and crank sensors are a digital sensor that functions in the same way. There will be 3 wires, with one being a ground, another being a 5V reference which should have 5V (or close to) at all times with the key on. The last wire is the signal back to the ECM. This signal will switch on and off, 5V - 0V - 5V - 0V, and so on. When #1 cylinder comes around there will be a gap in the signal, which is the indicator to the ECM that this is #1. The frequency of this signal switching on and off increases with engine speed, which is how the ECM determines RPM.

The ONLY way to test these sensors is to backprobe the terminals and watch the signal with a scope with the engine running, looking for a clean, crisp pattern. Any other way, such as checking resistance, is not a proper, or even remotely accurate way to check them.
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AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
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DD, Thank you for your time,
Yes, it is the CKP, # 3 in 4 months, p0336 will not leave even with new sensors,Piers got me to check tone ring on crank, all is good, no marks on any sensor I've removed,
p0336 DTC(M)CKP Sensor signal,
Cause states; Problem with voltage signal from CKP,
New cam sensor, to be sure, didn't change nothing, so I got a spare !!
Thats why I need picture/diagram,
Very sad, so far over $14,000.00 upgrades in 10 months,
Looks like I better go see DR. Dodge, once I know, The WORLD WILL KNOW !!!!
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.

Last edited by eloco : 12-01-2009 at 12:49.
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crank sensor / 2000 Ram Cummins

I need to know where a can get a 36-1 crank wheel and sensor for a serria cosworth
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Should be clean 0-5 volt signal. 35 pulses and one missing for #1.
Make sure connector is clean. Have seen several connector problems.
.
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Now to top the cake, I am down to 8.35 mpg's , & no fix in site, all guages say all is nomal, other than p0336, going on 5 month's
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wire info

Sorry Can't copy wiring diagram off cummins site but here's what I got. Three pin crank sensor end is marked with pins A,B and C on the harness plug. Pin A is 5 volt supply that goes to pin 3 in the ECM Connector. Pin B is engine speed return that goes to pin 4 in ECM Connector. Pin C is engine speed signal and goes to pin 17. Have found that if you have both ends of the harness disconnected try to light a headlight bulb through the harness wires this will test the wires under load. With out a sensor breakout harness its hard to test the sensor, Cummins doesn't give a sensor Ohms reading. I have found the the cummins sensor lasts longer than than the aftermarket ones they are also about $70 when some of the aftermarkets are $160.

Hope this helps

Motoskicowboy

Cummins trained tech and work in commercial truck shop.
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Cool wiring diagram

Forgot to mention you can get a complete OEM wiring diagram on pdftown.com use the 2001 model its all the same. They are free to download for all.

Motoskicowboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoskicowboy View Post
...Three pin crank sensor end is marked with pins A,B and C on the harness plug. Pin A is 5 volt supply that goes to pin 3 in the ECM Connector. Pin B is engine speed return that goes to pin 4 in ECM Connector. Pin C is engine speed signal and goes to pin 17. Have found that if you have both ends of the harness disconnected try to light a headlight bulb through the harness wires this will test the wires under load. With out a sensor breakout harness its hard to test the sensor, Cummins doesn't give a sensor Ohms reading. I have found the the cummins sensor lasts longer than than the aftermarket ones they are also about $70 when some of the aftermarkets are $160.

Hope this helps

Motoskicowboy

Cummins trained tech and work in commercial truck shop.

These pins are for the CMP sensor and not the CKP sensor, but both sensors are identical in how they operate, so testing procedures would be the same. An ohm reading of a digital sensor (one that produces a square wave, such as either the CMP or CKP) is useless. Again, the only way to test the sensor itself is with a scope. I'm thinking you have a wiring harness issue, like maybe interferrence in the CKP signal, poor sensor ground circuit, or like Matt mentioned, a bad connection at the sensor connector.

Agreed that the best sensor to replace with is a genuine Cummins part. Aftermarket parts are usually garbage right out of the box, and Dodge parts are usually Cummins parts with a 200-300% markup on price.
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1993 GMC K2500 6.5 T.D. VIN 'F', 4L80E, 4:10
AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician w/ Advanced Levels Auto Engine Performance & Electronic Diesel Diagnosis
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pin locations double checked

I just double checked my pin numbers using my 2000 model year serial # on the cummins site and from what I can tell they are for the crank sensor. I know that in the 2001 model these pins are used for the cam sensor,for the crank sensor is no longer used. In the 1999 and 2000 models the cam sensor uses 5 volt reference and signal return spliced into the oil pressure sensor. If these Pin #'s turn out to be wrong please let me know so I know Cummins wiring diagrams for my truck are wrong. If you want post your engine serial # and I can check build date online.

motoskicowboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motoskicowboy View Post
...I know that in the 2001 model these pins are used for the cam sensor,for the crank sensor is no longer used.
That's what I figured, but couldn't remember for sure since I no longer have access to the info I used to. So, you're saying that ECM pin #17 on the 99-00 models is the CKP signal, while this same pin is instead used for the CMP signal on the 01? Which pin on the 99-00 is the CMP signal then? Just trying to clarify the information.

A thought came to mind about eloco's problem... The 5V reference and sensor ground circuits generally originate from the same source at the ECM, and sensors will usually share these circuits. If there is a problem with either of these circuits, there are often other symptoms or faults with the sensors that share these circuits as well. Or, the root problem can be traced back to one of these other sensors. For instance, based on motoskicowboy stating that the CKP sensor's 5V reference and ground circuits are tee'd into the oil pressure sensor, instead off looking directly at the CKP sensor as the problem because of the code that is set, look at the oil pressure sensor instead. The ECM is very sensitive to the signals coming from the CKP and CMP sensors, and minor faults in these signals will very easily set a code and cause driveability problems. As far as the oil pressure sensor is concered, the ECM just wants to see that there is some kind of oil pressure, and it doesn't need to be exact. Perhaps the oil pressure sensor is failing, or shorting, which is taking out the 5V reference circuit, which in turn will affect the signal the CKP sensor sends back to the ECM.

A common true example of this scenario is on later model GM gas engines. The fuel tank pressure sensor will short, knocking out the entire 5V reference circuit for several sensors, CKP including, resulting in the engine dying and not restarting. When diagnosing this, at first glance, it appears the CKP sensor has failed because it is not sending a signal to the PCM, and many good CKP sensors have been replaced by this assumption (not by me ), only to find that the engine still won't start. Further investigation reveals that the 5V reference is missing, and unplugging each sensor that shares this circuit, one at a time until the 5V returns, will reveal which sensor is at fault.

The Cummins CKP sensor is very reliable, while the oil pressure sensor is not so (I have replaced several - usually because they quit all together).
__________________
1993 GMC K2500 6.5 T.D. VIN 'F', 4L80E, 4:10
AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician w/ Advanced Levels Auto Engine Performance & Electronic Diesel Diagnosis
Now currently out of the auto repair trade and into ammunition manufacturing !

Last edited by DieselDude : 12-31-2009 at 00:59.
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Smile info

Pin #s are as I stated above with the CAM sensor sharing oil pressure 5 volt supply and sensor return. The Cam sensor on the 99-00 models use pin 09 as a signal pin. I agree that the oil sensor should be checked.

Hope this helps

mototskicowboy
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Question

Thanks for the help folks,
I have downloaded the manual many moons ago & have yet to locate a diagram for the CKP, the only (1) I can find is, 8W-30-13 & THATS FOR A GASSER!
I also sent the wiring harness & EDGE to H.O. & got it updated to ver. 11.2,
harness was good,
DD, it's funny you mention the fuel guage, mine hasn't worked for just about a year now, I tried unplugging it & it threw a code, plugged it back in, cleared the code & hasn't been back since, 2 mo. ago, gauge still no worky, refill every 200 kms.,since I can't leave town!!!
BTW. This is all referring to code P0336
Crank Sensor / Performance Range
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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Unplug the oil pressure sensor, clear the codes (a code for the oil pressure sensor circuit will re-set), then go for a test drive to see if P0336 returns. If it doesn't, replace the oil pressure sensor.
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1993 GMC K2500 6.5 T.D. VIN 'F', 4L80E, 4:10
AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician w/ Advanced Levels Auto Engine Performance & Electronic Diesel Diagnosis
Now currently out of the auto repair trade and into ammunition manufacturing !
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DieselDude,
I just got home & have today off, I am going to give it a try & will let you know later today,
I would like to see what this thing will really do, after all, I haven't even been able to check out what the new cam & turbo's are like, it's been that long!!
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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Well today is just another day in sadville,
Pulled the oil sensor plug & went for a test drive, the p0336 is still there, at least I got to see the p0522 that I have never seen before!!
Looked at some more wiring diagrams & found that the IAT, MAP, EOPS & the APPS all use the same common ground & the APPS & EOPS use the same 5v supply, still is making no sense to me, I'm really starting to dislike my toy.
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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It's getting harder to give much more advice . You really need to have to CKP signal scoped, which will pretty much tell you exactly how the signal looks and point you in the direction you need to go.

What conditions does it take for p0336 to set? Does is set immediately on start-up after clearing the code, or does it take a while? A particular RPM, engine load, etc.? Have you checked the connector at the CKP sensor for loose terminals or wires pulling out of their terminals? Make sure the wiring isn't 'fusing' itself together. I've found deteriorated wiring before that basically glues the insulation of separate wires in a loom together, creating a short between circuits. This happens more often in areas of high heat, or oil contamination.
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1993 GMC K2500 6.5 T.D. VIN 'F', 4L80E, 4:10
AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician w/ Advanced Levels Auto Engine Performance & Electronic Diesel Diagnosis
Now currently out of the auto repair trade and into ammunition manufacturing !
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I agree with you DieselDude, that's why it's sitting in front of DR. Dodge's garage door, I should know something later today & I will advise you all.
The last couple of day's has been very wierd, it will set the code any time,(never @ idle) have to be into it a little, here's wierd for ya, it sets the code on my way to work, so I plug it in & go to work, get off work, fire it up & it idles fine for a bit, then it's like someone turned the key off & back on,(very noticeable) & I watched the guage cluster, & at the same time this happens, the check engine light goes out, shut it off, scan for codes, & the p0336 & p1693 are still there, but no engine light, fire it back up, runs fine, go home & the engine light comes back on,
Oh yes, & now I'm down to 7.53 MPG, before everything went for $hit, I was getting 15.78 MPG, can't wait to see whats a happening !
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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OK!
$198.07 & She's good to go,
1 mile away & to the nuts, presto, engine light on, check codes with smarty,
p0336 & p1693, lucky me, I was the last customer to leave,
I got the matches, anyone got some extra (ccil) laying around?

Complete scan & they also pulled the starter, sensor & checked tone ring, which I told them I had already done, DUH!!
Life is great @ DR. Dodge
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2000-2500-4x4-auto,3 piece manifold w/ blanket,Smarty REVO,Banks High Ram,Tunnelram intake, AFE 24-91039,BD R700s,CPP 7X12 sacs,Hamilton Big Stick 181/210,Push rods,valve springs, ARP studs,Fluidampr, BDHRVP,Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump & 13301 bypass regulator set @18 PSI,1/2" lines tank to VP44,Liberty mod w/d-straw,BD V body,BD T Converter,BD Black Flex,deep trans pan,gauges,HBS 2 1/2" level kit,poly sway bar bushings,drop brackets,& Maxx links,BD adj. track bar kit,BD SBS,Rancho 9000xl shocks.
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When you say Dr. Dodge, I assume you mean the dealer?? You should take the truck back and tell them they fixed nothing. Where I used to work, unless there was a problem out of the ordinary, the shop wouldn't normally charge someone for the time if they we couldn't give them an answer to their problem, which means the tech doesn't get paid either. So, either the tech spends extra time on their own to find a solution, or he doesn't get paid. If we gave a vehicle back to a customer with them thinking it was fixed, and the problem returns before they even get home, that would be a huge embarrassment for us and the tech would be expected to spend more time without pay to find the problem.

I've never worked at a dealer, but I don't really think they know how to use a scope, or if they even know what one is. I've read thru much of their diagnostic procedures, whether it be Dodge, Chevy, or Ford, and I don't recall in ANY of them referring to a scope in diagnosing sensors. The dealer techs rely on the flow charts out of their manuals to diagnose trouble codes. These flow charts typically have the tech check for a basic signal, eliminate wiring concerns, then isolate to the sensor or ECM as the problem. A sensor, especially a CMP, CKP, or VSS sensor, can still put out a signal and function, but glitches within the signal will cause DTC's to set and create other driveability problems, which the OE flow charts don't address. To properly diagnose these types of sensors, the tech MUST look at the actual electrical signal itself, which means using a scope. A "complete scan" with a scanner is NOT using a scope. This just means that they're looking the data the ECM is providing, and for the most part, the refresh rate of a scanner is NO WAY quick enough to catch glitches in a sensor signal. A scanner is the proper place to start, along with following the OE diagnostic procedures, but by using a scope, a dianosis can either be confirmed or rejected. Not only can one visually 'see' the electrical signal of the sensor, the power and grounds of the sensor can also be 'seen'. Looking at the ground circuit of a sensor on a scope is just as important as the signal itself. This is especially true on Dodges as they known to have ground circuit interferrence from other components (such as the case with the common TCC cycling problem).

I know it can be tough, but you need to find a reputable shop that speciallizes in these kind of diagnositics. The shop that I worked typically got these problem vehicles that had already been to most other shops around our valley with no proper diagnosis or fix, and I was the lucky one given the task of finding the problem. Most of the time, it was the customer coming in with a recurring problem that no one else could figure out, and sometimes, it was another shop that would bring a customer's vehicle in to avoid the embarrasment of giving a vehicle back to a customer without it being fixed (even though they didn't do it theirselves, but at least they were thinking of the customer). We were usually the customers' last and final stop. They could have saved a lot of money by coming to us first, and this is where it's tough on a customer, to know of a shop like this that has the capabilities of finding the problem the first time.

You might have answered this before, but have you tried disconnecting the Edge and removing the Smarty to see if these might be causing this problem. Also, why is P1693 always set? Is there a code set in the PCM or other module? Thinking outside of the box here, the ECM sends a CKP signal out on a different circuit to the PCM, based on the signals it's receiving from the CKP sensor and injection pump. Is there something else wrong further down the line that is causing a feedback issue that could be interrupting the circuitry of the ECM? Also, what about the injection pump? Since your model is a little different by actually having a CKP sensor, I'm not positive about this, but I believe the ECM compares what it sees from the injection pump and CKP sensor. Maybe it's the injection pump causing your problems and the ECM just interrpets it as a CKP sensor fault. This would better explain your fuel mileage problem as well. The FPCM is capable of running the injection pump and engine all on its own, even without any commands or inputs from the ECM. The FPCM is the primary input for the ECM as far as engine speed is concerned.
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1993 GMC K2500 6.5 T.D. VIN 'F', 4L80E, 4:10
AFE cold air intake, 3" exhaust w/ downpipe, 241k miles and still running strong.
ASE Certified Master Automobile Technician w/ Advanced Levels Auto Engine Performance & Electronic Diesel Diagnosis
Now currently out of the auto repair trade and into ammunition manufacturing !
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